Robert A.M. Stephens
STS-103 Countdown
Sat Oct 23 01:14:01 1999


is here: http://www.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/countdown/

if...........all fixes are done and flight manifest goes forward. I am going to KSC for the launch of STS 100 if it holds.

This is good preflight manifest data for those that are interested, this flight especially since 103 is a major mod package for HST. Cool mission if all CRIT data is fixed and the schedule holds.

RAMS

Accountability
Robert...
Sat Oct 23 09:33:21 1999


Thank you for making the attempt. Getting burned is a two way street and I for one can appreciate how one might be just a bit gun shy. I would like to clarify one matter with you though. Pardon the play on words but calling for accountability from NASA does not in any way equate to attacking the program or the fine people that work in and around it! This exercise, feeble as some might think it, is an offering up of just one ideal...a reaching out, as it were to NASA. Calling out, saying "We want you to suceed!" "Let us help in our own little way!" Don't turn away from those that you need the most! The American people! If you respect NASA as much as you would portray, this at least should be obvious! We are not UFOlogy...we are not "strange," we are what you have been searching for...we are "everyman" Respect is a two way street also...know what I mean?

Accountability

Nancy
Hi E. J.
Sun Oct 24 00:12:32 1999


I have nothing against you. I hope that you have nothing against me. I'm just here because it is interesting to converse with these people, do some interesting research, and learn about science and independent living.

Gatekeeper.....
EJ....With all that's come to pass.....
Sun Oct 24 01:16:47 1999


It's interesting to realize that you feel the way you do.

I guess I tripped the catch and now the coil is unwinding eh?

I suppose that's just as well as I AM hard edged....never alluded to being any different. I reacted and spoke my mind harshly yes but pointed towards a goal....One I mistakenly thought I knew.....That RAMS would cool it and go along with the level of conversation about MoonCam....

I was stunned to say the least at what his entrance entailed and it pissed me off. It's my fault that's for sure...just should have turned off my computer or surfed elsewhere.

But alas I do enjoy the MoonCam discussion and had hoped that RAMS would take up a corner of it and contribute to all of us getting at least an education in space exploration even if it was on paper or on a message board.

We really thought and still do that it is a worth while project to research....If RAMS or you feel it is foolish or "UFOlogy" in general well you are entitled to your opinion I don't want to try and dictate what you should do. But as it is you as well should respect us in the same manner.

Agree or disagree I am sorry you feel the way you do.

Gates of Babylon....

E.J.
Gates; what you just
Sun Oct 24 01:40:14 1999


said and in the manner that you addessed, was well said, and your not the only one to lose your temper, at times we all fail there all of us, WE ect.
It was my hope , that RAMS would be accepted into the research that all of you are doing.
I realize that he came in guns blazzing , thats RAMS ,to him , he was just being humerous and later settled in to serious topics and all hell broke lose.

I was just hoping for more, and now it may not happen, if we all could just all accept each other for what we are and how we are and stop attacking.
It may be to much to recieve that kind of respect in this venue, I just don't know anymore.

And Eddie thanks for your reply.
e.j.

Gatekeeper....
And thank you too EJ....
Sun Oct 24 01:59:39 1999


Yes I am an asshole for sure.....I want to continue to research MoonCam.....I would hope that Mr. Stephens would bite his own tongue as I should and pour over the ideas and concepts with a joyous and adventurous heart. The mind of my self is towards actually hands on building the machine.

Jason is more or less management....His certain logical approach is refreshing and he is learning fast!

Science 1 is real good for data and news.....

Tilos is the ultimate theorist with good data most of the time....

GOM is enthusiastic and well he is willing to recount what he gathers from what is ongoing....good for questions and his reception of how he understood....Keeps us honest in how we relate to "Everyman"!

Grendel is very critical thinking and sometimes harsh but I value the pointed criticism in that it makes me work harder to achieve a better point of input.

Accountability.....walks the fine line of something I am not too sure of but intuition states that he has a means to bring this to more than what we currently believe as a result.....MoonCam a topic of discussion behind some very formidable doors perhaps?

And lastly myself....Hair-trigger....Fire and Ice...Emotional...Intelligent....Not fooling around wasting time on pie in the sky BS but an honest effort to bring into this collection of minds stuff that is discussed....I have learned so much by just watching the more articulate individuals hash and rehash stuff either they bring up or what I bring forth....It is a real battle to keep up when things are progressing quickly....I know cause I have been caught with my mouth hanging on what others have brought forth I never knew about!

It's a intriguing quest to run down all I can find and then be merely zipped by when someone else who understands the topic clearly or asked better questions nails it....I'm sitting here like DUH!!! Life's a struggle and it includes us all...just how much is each individual willing to put up with? I hit my wall as you all now know....

Gates of Babylon....

E.J.
Well Gates as you can see
Sun Oct 24 02:17:27 1999


I am still here, because I do really care about, you, one and all. I know that you have all rallyed together on this project and my thinking was that Robert would as well. I'll keep working on him, for what that is worth, I know that he would enjoy such a project once involved.

And Gates Assholes are a dime a dozen, that leaves you out.:):)
e.j.

Gatekeeper....
I am sure input by him would be like us....
Sun Oct 24 02:32:58 1999


A piece of a larger whole where no one has ultimate oversight but an input based on their ability to state their opinion in a professional manner and yet be able to reach others who may need it spelled out point by point.

This takes patience and I for one find myself at times taxed and at other times enjoying the efforts of someone willing to go the extra mile to learn the concept.

As far as being an asshole....who to know better than myself...and who also better to recognize another?

I am intrigued by the potential of what Mr. Stephens can bring to the whole but....as a team player?

I still find it questionable in my mind and/or his choice of verbiage to me almost seems calculated to fly over the heads of most people. A self important attitude.

But he would gain mega support if he took the method of patience and understanding as well as time to relate what he chooses to do relate as one man to another not some superior intellect dumbing down to the little people. To me that goes against his statement of "Everyman".

We all have the desire to reach out to the heavens and speculate at the very least. Others take the extra steps but either in an input status or a passive read only education and awe inspired witness to our direction...it's a real deal story. IMHO it's fascinating to explore and learn.

RAMS has to make his own decision on what he wants to do as I have to make my own decision on whether to look the other way or harshly point my finger. Asshole or no.....It's me!


Gates of Babylon....

E.J.
Gates
Sun Oct 24 02:57:00 1999


Bottom line, team project. A concept not unfamliar to Robert, I am sure.

And it's great to see you so involved. asshole:):):)
e.j.

Gatekeeper....
Good to see you in a lighter spirit Scott!
Sun Oct 24 03:05:22 1999


Notice the thing we are using is called the "WEB"?

Looking at a spider web each strand is dependant on the other to sustain the whole creation....each intersection has multiple tangents/directions away from the intersection.

We are those strands aren't we? If we break down the whole thing folds to the first breeze that comes along right?

We need to grip with everything we have to sustain the geometry of the whole.

Gates of Babylon.....Going offline now!

Debaser
Thanks EJ.
Sat Oct 23 17:34:44 1999


I don't know what the hell I did to you, but lovely sentiments. I don't know where you're coming up with the designation of the "research team" since anyone's quite welcome to toss in their help (as long as they can do so civily and productively, that is), but I can't see how I'm not involved in it. Even if you didn't mean it that way, its been taken that way without any clarification on your part. See where I'm going with this?

Jason

E.J.
Jason of all the people on these BB's for the
Sat Oct 23 17:43:39 1999


LIFE OF ME I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD WASTE YOUR PURE LOGIC ON THEM. and I didn't say twelvepack so that leaves you out. But you are welcome to have at me anyway. It matters not.
e.j.

GOM
Now wait a minute. This is starting to . . .
Sat Oct 23 17:50:35 1999


click!!! Is e.j./RAMS mad because they now realize they have attacked their last defender??? And lost him . . .

Jason doesn't have to put up with your trash, any more than any of the rest of us e.j. - you have made the mistake of confusing a nice person (Jason) for a weak person. He cut you guys a lot of slack and how do you repay him?

Da Grump

Debaser
EJ, I have no intention
Sat Oct 23 17:50:06 1999


of having at you. I actually felt had at and for the life of me, I could not understand why. I understand about as well what the problem suddenly is and why it is that rather than bringing up problems and resolving them, people are content to go off and sulk or explode seemingly out of nowhere. I don't mean to offend anyone here but I have no goddamn idea what the hell is up everyone's ass all of a sudden. If its been a problem for longer than just now or RAMS coming back, I'd like to know what the problem is. People feel left out? Is that what we're talking about? Because we're discussing doing something other than sitting on a bulletin board and postulating or sitting in front of our radio listening to the newest theory on how the moon's been colonized since the 1800's? Yeah, I'm suddenly pissed.

Jason

GOM
Whoa Jason!!! Looks like I need to . . .
Sat Oct 23 17:56:43 1999


try to calm you down, instead of the reverse! LOL!!!

I think e.j./RAMS are very angry that they can't pull your chain any more. Seems very logical to an old grump . . .

If I'm right then I'm laughing all weekend!!!!!!!

Not poking fun at you, but everyone does seem on edge lately and I don't know why either.

Full moon???

Full mooncam? LOL ! ! !

They really seem upset that we thought up the MoonCam idea and now that I think about it . . .

Well, I bet Danny has more to say on this - just not on the board.

Have a great weekend!

Suddenly much less Grumpy

:)

E.J.
Jason all you have to do
Sat Oct 23 18:21:19 1999


is look and read GOM'S response above and all is self explantory, that is UFO with a smerk on it's face. It's never the content always the poster that is attacked.
e.j.

Debaser
EJ, is that anything like
Sun Oct 24 05:42:27 1999


wishing people to hell? It strikes me that you best check your tactics and evaluate if you're attacking the posters in your sixpack evaluation or their content. I've yet to see a comprehensive complaint of what you're upset about but rather a few personal attacks against a group of people.

Jason

E.J.
The effort and the effects Jason
Sun Oct 24 13:02:05 1999


are not always meant for all or uderstood even from the source. What is more important is the results. Not being a no it all, but just an observaion.
e.j.

Debaser
Re: effort and effects
Sun Oct 24 19:18:24 1999


EJ, I understand what you're saying but what you've said does not explain the problem you have/had. I apologize if you've stated it and I've overlooked it, I also don't want to assume rather than know exactly what you're talking about. If you're upset about something, spell it out and open it up for resolution. That's my suggestion anyway and I'll offer what help I can to resolve the situation.

Jason

E.J.
Jason the problem was
Sun Oct 24 21:29:02 1999


exposed, as Gates and I had our exchanges in this same thread last night, What I was upset about was the argument that Robert and Eddie had the day before. I believe that has been worked out. I don't think that I would be exposing to much if I were to say that Robert was quite upset over that exchange, as to his thinking, he was only trying to share imformation that he had knowledge of and was attackted for it, but as I said it looks like the two of them are working on that, only time will tell.

Jason I only want what is best for him and also for the board or the people on it. I have found in the past and now in the pesent, that sometimes we must sacrifice being exposed for something we are not to settle the other issues that are more important as the whole.
e.j.

Debaser
Y'know, re-reading this after the below...
Sun Oct 24 23:39:55 1999


I do have to take issue with the last paragraph. Someone should not have to be worried about being exposed for what they are not because they shouldn't be posing as something they aren't in the first place. Doing so detracts from the main issues and only serves to complicate them. I can't think of a good reason to pose as something you're not.

Jason

E.J.
Jason in a every good sewing basket
Mon Oct 25 00:23:52 1999


there is a pin cushion. and there is a reason for that.
and there is no reason to explain anymore.
No disrespect intended
e.j.

Debaser
None taken, however...
Mon Oct 25 00:41:15 1999


there's also something that everyone's on their toes about which has been called "disinformation". When someone pretends to be something they're not, they become suspect. While it isn't a valid argument, its a normal argument and there's no reason to give people the ammunition to not get it and shoot themselves in the foot. The reason for a pin cushion is to hold the sharp needles so they don't end up in your hand accidentally. However, the pins here are the ones that are doing the searching. UFOlogy is not purposely going out and accusing everyone of being involved in some cover-up just to be asses -- that's all they know, that's what they're taught to do! If they have a pin cushion to stick into, that doesn't change their tactics or help them understand where they're being misled, it just diverts their attentions and gives them something new to postulate over in the grand scheme of the sewing basket. It doesn't teach them about the basket or what's outside and it certainly doesn't help them figure out where they can place their trust when they find out that someone's been pretending to be something they're not. They stay stuck in the cycle of assulting and accusing the person rather than focusing on the issues because they don't feel they can trust any person enough to get to the true issues.

Jason

E.J.
I would suppose there will be some that will
Mon Oct 25 00:55:22 1999


say well said Jason , but you are wrong in your assesment of my remarks, and you will have to foregive me for not fetching a spoon, I know, I know,
he's just a know it all that knows nothing. If the pin fits stick it, I'm only the cushion. :):):)
e.j.

Debaser
EJ, you and I both know...
Mon Oct 25 01:18:42 1999


that I'm not assessing your statements correctly...and what my motivation is for doing so ;) That being said, I will stand by the assertion that pretending to be someone one is not is not a solution for the ills of UFOlogy. I do not know who you are referring to with that statement or if its taken correctly, but dammit...I believe that regardless :) Your cushion seems to imply martyrdom and I can see where that can prove useful at times...but not in the long run with this one. There, we are more in need of honest persons with integrity and knowledge to guide, help and participate.

Jason

E.J.
Jason just so, you know
Mon Oct 25 01:30:19 1999


That was well said.:)
e.j.

Debaser
Thanks...and I take the hint ;) n/m
Mon Oct 25 01:37:17 1999

GOM
Hello again e.j. - I appreciate your answer and I am
Sun Oct 24 21:45:54 1999


happy to see that you are loyal to your friend and would like to help him.

Your post does raise one additional question: Quoting . . . "sometimes we must sacrifice being
exposed for something we are not"

Who has been exposed for something they are not?

Thanks,

Da Grump

E.J.
GOM I do admire your
Sun Oct 24 21:57:58 1999


persistence.
e.j.

GOM
Well, E.J. - When you avoid answering a direct question
Sun Oct 24 22:07:17 1999


. . . you appear to not care about clarity of communication.

Is that your intent?

Saying you admire my persistence is a non-answer. You have been attacked before about that on this board. I am not attacking . . . I am trying to communicate. You appear to not be interested . . .

Am I wrong? Do you see how I reach my conclusion?

Respectfully,

Da Grump

E.J.
GOM I believe that you
Sun Oct 24 22:26:12 1999


may have the answer, and would like you to tell me, what I meant. And GOM I have always gone out of my way to answer your inquirys. But as for this one you are on your own. After all it's not some hidden message, but is food for thought.
e.j.

GOM
I'm right here with Jazon on this . . .
Sun Oct 24 21:11:53 1999


E.J. - you walked onto the board guns blazing away with no explanation of your problem. I treat people the same way they treat me. If you're civil, I will be more than happy to be civil in return. If you want to come in and blast everyone for some unknown reason, then expect to get blasted back to MT. I'm not going to babysit you and rams.

Secondly, you complain about FlutterBy. Why? You saw my post and her responding post. There's no problem. We are not attacking her. If her posts annoy some people, they can just skip over them. What is your reason for trying to stir up trouble that is not here? That is my impression of your behavior.

Respectfully,

Da Grump

:(

Grumpy Old Man
Morning e.j. - one simple question . . .
Sun Oct 24 13:18:46 1999


Are you saying that you "the source" do not even understand what you are posting sometimes? That is my understanding of your post.

That would lead to a second simple question: What are "the results" that you are looking for?

If "the results" are not results that you are looking for, then a third simple question: Who is looking for these results?

Thank you.

Da Grump

Anonymous
Re: Morning e.j. - one simple question . . .
Sun Oct 24 13:46:28 1999





Grumpy Old Man
Morning e.j. - one simple question . . .
Sun Oct 24 13:18:46 1999


Are you saying that you "the source" do not even understand what you are posting sometimes? That is my understanding of your post.

That would lead to a second simple question: What are "the results" that you are looking for?

If "the results" are not results that you are looking for, then a third simple question: Who is looking for these results?

Thank you.

Da Grump

--------------------------------------------------

What I am saying is, that Eddie and Robert, have chosen to take the time to understand each other, and the effort and the effects is their, Results.

And GOM now I must ask you. Do you think the price for that to happen was to high to pay?
e.j.

GOM
e.j. - thank you for response, however I do not . . .
Sun Oct 24 14:09:29 1999


completely understand your question back to me:

"
And GOM now I must ask you. Do you think the price for that to happen was to high
to pay?
e.j."

I do not understand. What "price" have Eddie and RAMS paid?

Thx,

Da Grump

E.J.
Re: e.j. - thank you for response, however I do not . . .
Sun Oct 24 14:30:43 1999


GOM it's not what Robert and Eddie paid, but the effect of there conclusion, That was the price, Nancy , Shadow, Jason , you GOM, and myself.

Now GOM, if you don't unerstand that, I am going to get my hammer and be at your house in one hour. Don't be to alarmed , it's a soft rubber one.:):):)
e.j.

Gatekeeper....
Hell EJ I don't fully understand what you mean....
Sun Oct 24 14:42:01 1999


Price? You had to read he and I calling each other asshole.....big damn deal I am fully aware of attitude and I do believe RAMS has his own opinion of himself which I bet if he is honest with himself will parallel with me.

My opinion of course but hey!

How has our argument affected you EJ? You got angry too...welcome to the male of the specie (sp?).

Gates of Babylon....

E.J.
Gates The effects on myself are that
Sun Oct 24 15:03:11 1999


of the results, I try not to dwell to long on the past. My anger is always short lived. and try never to hold a grudge. anger held for to long will eat you from the inside and out. Thats why at times we all have to let it out, it's quite healthy at times I think. I believe that anger is one of the doors to our reallity, and I better stop there, before I get mysef in trouble again. :):)
e.j.

Gatekeeper....
Well I'll tell you what....
Sun Oct 24 15:10:58 1999


I could see myself going road trip east just to do this in person....It's still an option, I gave multiple invitations to RAMS to come here but that wasn't an option for him due to prior travel plans on his part.

I don't want a fight but I also don't want to see crap either you know what I mean?

These results you allude to, does that mean the angry words helped to set boundaries so that conversations of value could ensue?

It's all contingent on RAMS and he has yet to ply his input this morn to the threads developing.

I have to get on with the day so I won't be back till this evening so in the hopes that civil and respectful discourse continues.....Thanks EJ!

See ya!


Gates of Babylon....

GOM
Hello E.J. - Why do you group everyone together and just
Sat Oct 23 17:25:21 1999


attack? I have done no harm to Flutter. I still see her on the RS board and I even encouraged her to not listen to those that attack her. I don't go to Howl anymore. I don't even know if it is still functional. If there happens to be someone who doesn't like her posts, they can skip them and go on to other topics.

Who are the "six of you". What research team? How come I wasn't invited??? Or is that another secret? They don't tell me anything around here . . . Too much trouble, I am.

I think.

Your post seems illogical to me. Would you mind clarifying?

Thx,

Da Grump

:)

Hazy Editor
E.J., I personally take responsibility
Sat Oct 23 17:06:40 1999


for encouraging Flutterby not to post here as often as she was - and to provide a little more substance to her posts. She had a knack for responding to practically every damn post on this board in a silly manner and was a tremendous distraction.

I'm not sure what's got you so riled right now - but there are better ways to handle this matter. You have my phone number - don't be a stranger.

E.J.
Distractions
Sat Oct 23 17:32:25 1999


Oh!!! I forgot foregive me please. Who wants that with all this great research that is taking place, with the sixpack research team, after all their what makes the world turn on it's axis, how will we live without them. How stupid of me to think of anything that is more important then them.

Straight to HELL!!!
e.j.

Grand Vizier
Re: Distractions
Sun Oct 24 04:17:42 1999


I gotta interject here...has anybody asked him/herself just why is it that RAMS, e.j., and Hoagy's Drawer's seem so hell-bent on breaking up this little party on Hazy? I mean, what the hell is it to them anyway if we want to play and do a little research or do a little thinking and dreaming out loud, huh? I've seen nothing constructive from any of the above, only biting, and nauseatingly redundant sarcasm, not even a decent critique of any of the ideas that have been floated around this board. Could it be that we just might be on to something here? Sure Hazy is not the first group to come up with the idea of a photographic flight to the moon financed strictly with private money, BUT Hazy's Mission Control just might have more imagintion, more contacts, more real-world savvy, and just might be articulate enough to get the attention of a few movers and shakers to cause a modest amount of concern in certain quarters. I gotta wonder what are these guys so afraid of for them to try so hard to belittle a really interesting dialogue. Maybe they too realize that...
It's only a matter of time.

Debaser
Froth on, EJ. n/m
Sat Oct 23 17:36:32 1999

Debaser
GOM, my post above served
Sat Oct 23 17:53:43 1999


no good pupose and I should've thought better before I sent it. I am frustrated and don't know what the hell is going on. I consider Flutter a friend on the boards and come to find out that we've done something to her. I don't like this passive agressive shit and if someone's got a problem, lay it out and fix it rather than pulling a pout or an explosion.

I'm heading out for a bit, hopefully the Yankees will stomp on the Turners and help my night along some.

Jason